9 Apr

i’m a little baffled. 

i felt really good about “integrity” being a key ingredient for Doms, but i can’t find a similar key ingredient for subs.  Think about it.

Sin had “topping from the bottom” at the top of her list, and that may fit as the most deadly of sub sins. 

{Aside – i gotta say, i love that sentence.  How often do you get to use two words twice with completely different meanings in the same sentence?}

But seriously, “topping from the bottom” is only a bad thing in the context of a D/s relationship, whereas “lack of integrity” permeates who you are.  i think that bothers me.

i’m not criticizing Sin’s list, you know, just trying to think this through.  Most of the things on the Dom list are qualities that would describe the person as a whole person.  Most of the things on the sub list are related to the D/s aspect of the relationship ~ not all, but most.

In my mind, the real point of relationships is to grow who we are, if you know what i mean…  to become a more integrated, more loving, more soulful person.   Whether it’s our relationship with our Dom, our kids, our pets, or the homeless guy we walk past on the way to work every day, the point is to stretch us and make us more of who we are.

So the key quality for subs ~ i don’t think it can be “doesn’t top from the bottom.”   And i don’t know what it is. 

Something more to think about… what do youall think?


On a whole different note:  the Kinky Bloggers’ Convention is being postponed indefinitely due to not being able to get more than a couple of people together on the same dates.  Maybe next year… 

So is there a kinky blogger’s chat room somewhere?


21 Responses to “Subs”

  1. ahiddenslave April 9, 2011 at 6:58 am #

    aisha, i was thinking about sins list too…in the middle of my sleepless night…maybe that’s why I was sleepless:)
    For a while I considered “lack of respect”…not just towards ones Dom,other Doms etc, but also lack of self respect. I thought about this as I am a big believer in respect. Self respect being one of those qualities that I feel is vital……but then I couldn’t decide if lack of it is a sin…or something that needs to be taught, nurtured and encouraged by the Do, and there for cannot be a sin, but ultimately its is the responsibility of the slave/sub too……I think this was the sleepless night now…I’m no further on really.

    • aisha April 9, 2011 at 7:27 pm #

      @HS –

      Yes, I would agree that respect is essential, for one self and others. Nice. I don’t know if a lack of it is a “sin” either, and I agree that Doms need to support and nurture the self-respect aspect. But it works in the sense that it’s necessary for the relationship and it’s not just a D/s virtue.

      Hope you sleep better tonight!


  2. striving for peace April 9, 2011 at 7:38 am #


    • aisha April 9, 2011 at 7:28 pm #


      Yeah, that’s excellent. I agree, selfishness can be the number one sin for subs.

      Ok, but then is the necessary quality is “selflessness?” Hmmmm, i think we have to further define it.


  3. k April 9, 2011 at 8:26 am #

    Oh I have to agree with selfishness ….

    • aisha April 9, 2011 at 7:30 pm #


      Ok, but tell me what you mean ~ only because I think people confuse it with not being a doormat.


  4. sweet kk April 9, 2011 at 8:30 am #

    i’m with sfp… it can’t work with selfishness


    • aisha April 9, 2011 at 7:30 pm #

      @Kk – Yep, not disagreeing. And really, that’s on both sides, isn’t it?


  5. greengirl April 9, 2011 at 10:14 am #

    I think most of the things on Sin’s list can and probably should be reframed as human character traits, not D/s specific “rules”. Topping from the bottom is manipulation, pure and simple, which is dishonest and disrespectful. Integrity involves taking a hard look at what you are doing, and why, and working to align that with what you know you should do or how you as a person should be. Of course subs should possess all those basic, admirable, necessary human characteristics, just as Doms should.

    Trying to top by hinting or asking outright for something specific falls into the realm of “up to the Dom” to grant or not, so it isn’t topping. Withholding or fabricating information to manipulate the siuation and the outcome, that’s a lack of integrity.

    • aisha April 9, 2011 at 7:33 pm #


      Yes, I think what you’re saying is on target too {not that I have to approve it, by any means, but you know what I’m saying.} At some point, I’ll have to go back and look at the list again.

      And by your definition, topping from the bottom would be lack of integrity. Cool.


  6. littlemonkey April 9, 2011 at 2:40 pm #

    As selfishness is something I personally struggle with, I vote selfishness.

    • aisha April 9, 2011 at 7:35 pm #

      @Lm – Don’t we all struggle with it? And sometimes I thing the struggle is figuring out what’s selfish and what’s good self care.

      And yes! {In response to your other comment} I totally think a naughty bloggers chat room would be great. I have no idea how to do that….


  7. littlemonkey April 9, 2011 at 2:40 pm #

    How about we create a Naughty bloggers chat room? Yahoo anyone?

    • aisha April 9, 2011 at 7:35 pm #

      O, I do have a yahoo messanger id though.

  8. sin April 9, 2011 at 7:47 pm #

    Easy to have a chat conference in yahoo. I think you can have a ton of people on it too. I assume you can also do it in google, but I’m less sure about that.

    We could set a time that worked for people that were interested, To either chat typing or talking. I would suggest that talking doesn’t work all that well for a big group the first time, cause some people would completely dominate the conversation. So… typing?

    And talk about a time, like umm, 9-10 pm Thursday nights EST? I think most of us are in North America, and as long as we are accommodating for those on the west coast (though once again, most of us EST or Central aren’t we?

    • aisha April 9, 2011 at 9:50 pm #


      I don’t know what time I’m in – I never can remember – all I know is it’s Daylight Savings Time now, not so helpful… but 9-10 would work, as long as I’m not in a zone where it’s 10-11, cause I’d be in bed then.

      Super cool


  9. sin April 9, 2011 at 7:50 pm #

    Ooops, I also wanted to say that I was kind of playing with the idea that there were characteristics that were either more important or different in D/s relationships than in vanilla relationships, that’s where the sub sins and Dom sins lists came from.

    For example arrogance is a bigger problem in a normal guy than in a Dom cause we kind of like it there (most of us). And I think that something like lack of integrity or dishonesty is a bigger deal in a Dom than in a normal partner, not because it’s okay in a normal partner, but because the Dom is thinking and deciding for both people in the relationship.

    And as I said they were kind of trial balloons. Tons of interesting response though.

    • aisha April 9, 2011 at 9:57 pm #

      @Sin – Yes, and I really took some liberties with your ideas, and used them as a jumping off place. I’m glad you didn’t mind. ALL this is just trial balloons for real, isn’t it?

      I think maybe everything is exagerated in D/s world…so I do know what you mean. It was a great line of thought, and if I sounded disparaging of it at any point, I didn’t feel that way.

      Yes, we both got great responses – I love it. And I appreciate the way we connect and separate and connect again.



  10. k April 9, 2011 at 10:01 pm #

    Ok telling you what I mean…:) selfishness for a sub particularly is a sin because it undermines the very concept of submission, which is to give and trust our will to someone else. Of course selfishness in general is not a positive quality, just like a selfish Dom isn’t so great, neither is an arrogant sub. But I do think from my experience at least, selfishness is what often trips me up. I get absorbed with my discomfort, my insecurity, my feelings, my timing, my my .. letting go of those selfish thoughts in order to do what I truly want, to put him first, means that I trust him to know and understand what I need versus what I in any given moment might think I need. No doormat though….it takes real trust to be selfless. Ok I think this is one of those responses that doesn’t exactly clear things up, as much as leave me pondering 🙂

    • aisha April 10, 2011 at 6:03 am #


      No, I think you put it really well. It’s getting absorbed with ourselves, our own perspective, our own thoughts – just what you said – I think you’re right. It doesn’t mean that our wants and needs aren’t part of the picture, they just aren’t the whole picture, and it’s not the part we’re primarily focused on.

      And yes, that’s much stronger in D/s world – a bigger problem when it’s a problem, maybe a greater strength when it’s not such a problem for subs.

      Thanks for coming back to share that. I don’t know if I can put it into words all that well either, actually, but I feel what you mean.


  11. nilla April 11, 2011 at 8:29 am #

    i’m late to comment (sorry, had extra work last week), and trying to not read everyone else’s replies first, so it comes from my heart.

    its kinda kewl that we all bounce off each others posts…we’re all thinking along similar lines, and it makes this a true community that we can all say…’i was thinking about what you said…’

    i struggle with selfishness…i keep sayin’ “i want (usually referring to connectivity with my Master)…”

    i rarely say “Master i want an orgasm” …i might ask for one, if He doesn’t mention whether i can or not, but when we are together, it’s His playbook and i’m there as entertainment…and that feeds me.

    And i had a hard, hard time wrapping my head around the fact that He wants me to cum a thousand times.

    i finally *asked*…’whats in it for You, Master? How does making me cum, pleasuring me so deeply…how does that feed You?’….

    He said it was “His to control”…and that’s what feeds His desires.

    it’s true that there are times during play when He’ll tell me to “hold it, hold onto it…no cumming, not yet…” and there are other times He’ll tell me to “come and get it, making me hump His hand…until i explode…and He laughs…coz He controlled the play, He controlled me.

    the thing that feeds Him is that He’s driving the bus. i’m His passenger, under His power and control.

    i can’t tell you how many times that i’ve said “i can’t, Master” (never say that! really, not a good idea!)about cumming again? and He’ll pull one, two, more orgasms from me. He’ll growl in my ear…”I KNOW there’s more in there, nilla, I’m going to find it…give it to me NOW….”

    So am i selfish for wanting to please Him by giving Him that? Because i get to cum like a geyser over and over again? That is pretty self-serving, isn’t it?

    or am i serving, fully?

    coz yanno…it feeds us both.

    i think the worst submissive ‘sin’…is lack of communication.

    ps thanks for these ‘thinking’ posts…honestly, you’re such a blessing to this community.


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